posted over at sadly! no in response to LGF post response.

just want to point out--in general, that whole LGF list is pretty non-controversial, right?

1. Stop stoning women to death

i agree, one hundred percent. it's a western liberal value that is being promulgated here. fuck any religion that would deny women basic rights.

2. Stop forcibly removing women's genitilia.

right on. women's rights are fundamental to our core beliefs--especially as liberals.

3. Stop forcing women to wear black trash can liners.

well, complicated, because lots of women in the islamic world actually will defend their "subjagation" and their removal of sex from the public square. i think it's fucked up, myself, and agree with this as well, as does any pro-western non-asshole, but it is a tad complicated.

4. Stop blowing up buildings, subways, and such.

yes, it is true, many of these acts have been commited around the world lately by islamisists of various stripes. their level of aposotasy in so doing is beyond my knowledge, but in general, that seems like a good idea, however righteous they may feel their cause is. killing civilians is teh l4m3.

5. Stop attacking Israel.

here things get interesting. i think it is safe to say people who call for the genocide of other people based on their religious persuasion are assholes and all right thinking people should hate them right back for it. but protesting israel's various land grabs, inhumane treatment of palestinians etc.--that's a tougher call. i'm split on this myself, though again, if you are saying israelis should die for existing, you are a shitbag.

6. Stop killing Jews in France.

sure. we agree with that as well. is a bad thing.

7. Stop suing anyone who says things you don't want to hear.

here we start to go off the rails a bit. ever been to the UK? they sue each other over saying things every day. i don't see what this has to do with islam.

8. Stop throwing juvenile hissyfits over silly cartoons.

i agree wholeheartedly with this. if your religion is so fucking weak and pathetic it can't take a bit of ribbing, may i suggest secular humanism as an alternative? i mean, seriously, can anyone disagree here at S!N that parody is a good thing and that the world needs more, not less, of it?

9. Stop trying to kill apostates.

it does in fact say that this is what one is supposed to do with apostates in the quran. verbatim. kind of fucked up for a "holy book".

10. And generally stop being a bunck of jerk-offs.

But then again, if they did that, they wouldn't be muslims, now would they?

now this stuff strikes me as racist, or religionist, or whatever. but here's the crux of the thing. religion does in fact suck. my religion--judaism--sucks ass. lame with the women, bad with the lessons taught, violent and vindictive, pro-slavery and incest etc.. christianity suuu uuu uu cccks. the last 2000 years of history, sanguinary as they are, will attest to that. and yes, it is true, islam suuu huuu hhuuuuuu ccccks. it does. i know the quran has a lot of beautiful stuff in it (as does the new testament) about helping the poor, the golden rule and so on. but the bad stuff in the quran is so fricking bad it is astounding, and i don't believe anyone who is a s!n reader would disagree with that analysis. really, you think the whole "kill or convert the infidel" thing is cool? you're down with women being treated like fucking dirt?

so, cognitive dissonance--i think most people here agree with 90% of what the LGF poster says, if you look at it objectively. we've just all been taught to kiss the ass of everyone else's religion--me, i'm not willing to do that. religion is the worst thing on our earth right now, and islam shouldn't get a free pass, even if it means agreeing with horrible LGFers.

just to clarify, i agree with the angle that the person who wrote the above doesn't realize how much he or she has not noticed all sorts of things about the world--while many islamic terrorists blow up subways, many american bombs fall on wedding parties, for instance. but that's not the point i'm trying to make--of course you should expect shallow analysis from LGF. you should just point out areas of agreement as well, whomever (and however invidious) the messenger may be.